Violent Pk

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What we might have to do to get players

Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:06 pm by Sol

Well our best bet without a doubt is the last option that I don't want to resort to, which is pay for advertisements. Now I don't know if you are aware of costs on purchased advertisement; it's heavily expensive. Some adverts range from $100 to $1000 depending on which website. Now of course I'm not going to pay for that kind of fund which is really ridiculous. Why? Because it doesn't give you a …

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Are we progressing?

Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:06 am by Sol

Well I wanna start out with some statistics first. We have(at the time i posted this topic) 307 accounts total including people with multiple accounts. I can do a stats check for this later. Out of those 307 accounts, we have 256 inactive accounts. That is an 83% inactive player base leaving about 51 active accounts. We are in fact declining in votes as well assuming our player count average …

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Are you ready?

Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:07 pm by Sol

Hello boys and girls! I want to let you guys know there is a stronger chance(80%) sure that the server will be coming back. Why you may ask? Well the support from your fellow players did not give up for the past year. They kept begging and begging for the server to come back. I was surprised and felt ambiguous.

Anyway, for those who weren't aware of what was going on in the past 2 months, I …


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    Are we progressing?

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    Are we progressing as a server?

    [ 7 ]
    64% [64%] 
    [ 2 ]
    18% [18%] 
    [ 2 ]
    18% [18%] 

    Total Votes: 11

    Z3rk3r
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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by Z3rk3r on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:10 pm

    Knitewulf wrote:I'd say as a server we are progressing. The progression has slowed a little but I am still noticing new faces every day.  
     
    I think what has been said about XP rates is true. Many people I have seen come on and complain about it taking to long to train. As old members of VPK we were obviously more inclined to train and not care about the XP rates, but think about it from someone coming to the server due to runelocus or another voting site. Most of the time a player is just checking out the server to see if they like it and that includes a couple hours of playing, maybe. After that first log out they either decide they like it and come back or move on. If the couple of hours they spend on the game is training and they still haven't gotten anywhere significant that is discouraging. Maybe give new players something they can accomplish within their first few hours of being online. Say maybe a low leveled boss that drops items that would be beneficial to low levels/pures. It could drop Morri Javs/Axes at a low increment each drop (i.e. 5-10) This gives low level players a way to make money from high level players. Yes a high leveled player could farm the drops, but it would be much more beneficial to PVP or High level boss at that point.

    The chest needs some altering. It was okay in the beginning to get PVP armor into the game and Sol you reduced the droprates before too much was introduced into the game so that's good. However some of the strongest armor in the game shouldn't have the chance to be received from a key you can get by killing yaks/rock crabs. Make it so PVP armor is only obtainable from killing others or as others have suggested monsters in the wilderness. Maybe Revs? Have them wander the wildy so they can't just be camped and there is an actual risk involved with trying to get the armor.
    I think putting Void into the chest as previously stated is a good idea as the "best items" you can get from chest. Make it rare, but not so rare that someone could train 99s on Yaks and not have a full set. I imagine it would have the possibility of spicing up the wildy as well.

    I think Coinshare needs adjustments but only while the server is young. As of right now we don't have enough players to actively keep a steady economy, and this allows for price manipulation. Each GS Shard's price (among other items) being manipulated to make more money is helpful in the short term to the players abusing it, but hurts the game in the long run for everyone. This would be hard to fix, but it is definitely a problem.

    The one thing that desperately needs to be changed is the newboss. There is not one thing beneficial that guy introduced. Sure it was a way to get a bunch of items into the game all at once, but those items would have been so much better introduced through seperate content. Nobody wants to do anything but kill the newboss because then they will be at a huge disadvantage to everyone else spending all their time on it. You just introduced Slayer and the only incentive to train it is so you can get D boots at 83. Why not make some of the random items the new boss drops come from High leveled slayer monsters? Not only that, but it was quickly exploited and now there are a ton of items in game from when it was easily safespotted. The racist remarks made by the boss are completely unnecessary. They serve no purpose to the game and turn people away from VPK. If I was a newcomer to VPK and I saw that it would immediately paint a negative picture of what VPK was and how the community interacted with each other. The only people I can imagine who would even think it is funny are the exact ones who would be toxic to this game. I hope this addition is not permanent or even semi-longterm.


    Here are just a few little things I think would help

    Make it so ::updates reads from the newest at the top to the oldest at the bottom. The more updates that are done the more scrolling. This would make it easy for players to log on and quickly see whats been added.

    As of right now the GE doesn't have many items in it, but when it does what about adding a search feature? Keep the mainpage with a giant list of items, but other users to search for specific ones within the ge.

    It may be time for a staff member, in order to bounce ideas off of and they'd be able to transfer the player's voices to you easier.

    I've seen a lot of people get on and ask "how do I claim vote", while I personally don't like voting rewards, many people vote specifically for them. Maybe add various tiers of mystery box's that can be bought with a certain # of voting points and can contain a # of random items helpful to players.



    These are just ideas and I'm sure there are better fixes than what I thought of but it is a start. These are the things I think have the potential of holding the game back in the longterm view of things. Sure it is fun right now for maxed players to make a ton of money and what not, but we aren't gaining a rapid amount of new players so all it is doing is creating a giant gap of wealth just like VPK suffered from before. We've got a great server here with a great admin and a great community. With a few proper tweaks I can see us going a long way Smile

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    Sol
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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by Sol on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:15 pm

    Knitewulf wrote:I'd say as a server we are progressing. The progression has slowed a little but I am still noticing new faces every day.  
     
    I think what has been said about XP rates is true. Many people I have seen come on and complain about it taking to long to train. As old members of VPK we were obviously more inclined to train and not care about the XP rates, but think about it from someone coming to the server due to runelocus or another voting site. Most of the time a player is just checking out the server to see if they like it and that includes a couple hours of playing, maybe. After that first log out they either decide they like it and come back or move on. If the couple of hours they spend on the game is training and they still haven't gotten anywhere significant that is discouraging. Maybe give new players something they can accomplish within their first few hours of being online. Say maybe a low leveled boss that drops items that would be beneficial to low levels/pures. It could drop Morri Javs/Axes at a low increment each drop (i.e. 5-10) This gives low level players a way to make money from high level players. Yes a high leveled player could farm the drops, but it would be much more beneficial to PVP or High level boss at that point.

    The chest needs some altering. It was okay in the beginning to get PVP armor into the game and Sol you reduced the droprates before too much was introduced into the game so that's good. However some of the strongest armor in the game shouldn't have the chance to be received from a key you can get by killing yaks/rock crabs. Make it so PVP armor is only obtainable from killing others or as others have suggested monsters in the wilderness. Maybe Revs? Have them wander the wildy so they can't just be camped and there is an actual risk involved with trying to get the armor.
    I think putting Void into the chest as previously stated is a good idea as the "best items" you can get from chest. Make it rare, but not so rare that someone could train 99s on Yaks and not have a full set. I imagine it would have the possibility of spicing up the wildy as well.

    I think Coinshare needs adjustments but only while the server is young. As of right now we don't have enough players to actively keep a steady economy, and this allows for price manipulation. Each GS Shard's price (among other items) being manipulated to make more money is helpful in the short term to the players abusing it, but hurts the game in the long run for everyone. This would be hard to fix, but it is definitely a problem.

    The one thing that desperately needs to be changed is the newboss. There is not one thing beneficial that guy introduced. Sure it was a way to get a bunch of items into the game all at once, but those items would have been so much better introduced through seperate content. Nobody wants to do anything but kill the newboss because then they will be at a huge disadvantage to everyone else spending all their time on it. You just introduced Slayer and the only incentive to train it is so you can get D boots at 83. Why not make some of the random items the new boss drops come from High leveled slayer monsters? Not only that, but it was quickly exploited and now there are a ton of items in game from when it was easily safespotted. The racist remarks made by the boss are completely unnecessary. They serve no purpose to the game and turn people away from VPK. If I was a newcomer to VPK and I saw that it would immediately paint a negative picture of what VPK was and how the community interacted with each other. The only people I can imagine who would even think it is funny are the exact ones who would be toxic to this game. I hope this addition is not permanent or even semi-longterm.


    Here are just a few little things I think would help

    Make it so ::updates reads from the newest at the top to the oldest at the bottom. The more updates that are done the more scrolling. This would make it easy for players to log on and quickly see whats been added.

    As of right now the GE doesn't have many items in it, but when it does what about adding a search feature? Keep the mainpage with a giant list of items, but other users to search for specific ones within the ge.

    It may be time for a staff member, in order to bounce ideas off of and they'd be able to transfer the player's voices to you easier.

    I've seen a lot of people get on and ask "how do I claim vote", while I personally don't like voting rewards, many people vote specifically for them. Maybe add various tiers of mystery box's that can be bought with a certain # of voting points and can contain a # of random items helpful to players.



    These are just ideas and I'm sure there are better fixes than what I thought of but it is a start. These are the things I think have the potential of holding the game back in the longterm view of things. Sure it is fun right now for maxed players to make a ton of money and what not, but we aren't gaining a rapid amount of new players so all it is doing is creating a giant gap of wealth just like VPK suffered from before. We've got a great server here with a great admin and a great community. With a few proper tweaks I can see us going a long way Smile

    If I remove pvp armour from the chest then ppl will stop collecting keys. Then we get the bitching about how we shit from the chest. So either way people are gonna moan. So no that won't happen.

    Newboss drops good items lmao. I don't know what you are on about? Chaotics is considered to be the best item in the game. Dropping it through slayer etc makes it easily obtainable. Newboss was designed to be difficult and time consuming. Even with the exploit that happened, its still a hard drop rate and the exploit only lasted for about 6 hourish before i patched it. The racial remarks weren't done by me but by illion and apollo. If it becomes an issue then Ill change the dialogues.

    Coinshares doesn't cause any issues. Are u trying to imply to remove a feature that gives players a boost to getting coins? No I'm not gonna remove that. Price manipulation is done by the players not THE SERVER. Besides price are adjusted to what people buy it for. RS had the same problem its called MERCHANTING....

    sin lowe

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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by sin lowe on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:21 pm

    Sol I don't mind putting time into advertising this server on forums associated with rsps do we have a game trailer I could advertise?

    Godsend
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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by Godsend on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:26 pm

    @sin, not a recent one. Someone with some editing know how should totally make a new one however, we have some nice features to show off.

    BarragepkZ
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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by BarragepkZ on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:31 pm

    I think what Knitewulf meant about the Newboss drops is that it drops too many good items. It should maybe drop only like chaotics and other minor stuff and other good stuff could be dropped from other monsters. I think coinshare would work best in hand with GE like it's supposed to. Due to coinshare there is more money coming in but no items. Before the Newboss there were like 2 Ags' and the value of ags was like 300m+. You would have to change coinshare prices in the process to make it work with GE, but I think it should happen so that there are more items in the server so we don't have ridiculously high prices. If it has to be done you can decrease the drop rates of such items so that the GE doesn't get flooded with the items either. To Replace the method to bring in cash either than coinshare you can change the prices of uncommon items to sell for more in shops. Uncommon items such as infinity and robin.


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    sin lowe

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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by sin lowe on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:32 pm

    I could make on but as of last month I have a pos laptop which wouldn't be able to handle the video recording software and especially would struggle running editing software but if someone is will to make a pretty banner and a trailer I would definitely be willing to advertise the server anywhere and everywhere.

    illion

    Posts : 180
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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by illion on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:45 pm

    First there are some very poor aspects to this game, many of which knitewulf hit on the head and have been previously expressed to you by corbin and I in our skype calls.  I will not quote knite as he has been quoted many time so far but here are the additional issues.

    -There is no point to killing anything other than NEWBOSS
     a) He drops everything that you could possibly ever want including keys which let you get pvp armor and weapons.
    b) The racist shit that he says was funny at the time and you were laughing as we were creating it. I specifically remember you putting "I called in blackup nigga!" as one of the dialogue options and while funny at the time were an oversight by us and should be removed from the game.
    c) That stupid black box adds nothing to the difficulty of the boss besides just being fucking annoying and should be removed.

    -Coinshare
    a) While a great idea there are problems with it including the fact that because we have such a small player base it is absurdly easy to manipulate prices on the GE not for selling purposes but to increase the drops from coinshare. ie. Armadyl armor and all gs shards
    b) yes it is a very good thing to have implemented but there needs to be some sort of check on the price manipulation

    -XP Rate
    a) I understand that you wish the game to be difficult but a 21.5x xp rate is absurdly slow. You are required to train skills as follows
    1) alternate from strength and attack to progress to be able to wield a d scim
    2) get about 60-70 strength to boost max hits and therefore xp rate
    3) get 50 defense for armor to get strength bonus
    4) 78 attack for a pvp weapon
    5) 99 strength
    6) Other 99s required to pk
    b) As per point a this is very discouraging to new players it takes about 10-20 hours to get 99 strength realistically and while your old player base is willing to do it it scares off new players. Also do you not find it disturbing the lack of people with maxed melee stats even if you exclude prayer?
    c) Xp rates need to be increased across the board because of the slowness of training and the fact that you need high levels to even have a competitive chance in pvp while the rates do not have to be anything like the 317 they should be much higher than they are now so that a person can realistically get a 99 combat stat in a couple hours of training.

    -There is no incentive to go into the Wilderness
    a) pvp armor is very hard to get and the people that have it are not willing to sell it because the only way to get the stuff is to just farm keys until you get lucky enough at the chest.
    b) Although no one actually does fight caves to get their firecape, the amount of waves should be severely decreased to about 8-10
    c) Alternatively you can make it so that if you get a firecape it is impossible to lose by dying like on the 317 but it can be still tradable.
    d) It is stupid difficult to even get barrows armor to pk in due to the amount of grinding required. And although I have not spent much time at the barrows minigame the idea seems like a waste of time because I feel like I get more of a profit from crystal keys. Therefore a lot of the shit in the chest should be taken out, karil's should be removed, torags should be removed, guthans should be removed, and buff the chance to get dharoks veracs and ahrims. And even with this veracs is still rather pointless because it is so damn slow.
    e) Rev caves need to return with a low drop rate that encourages people to go into the wilderness so that they can be pkd but also have a decently reliable way to get pvp armor.
    f) Runes are stupidly hard to buy out because people buy out the stock as soon as the server resets. Runecrafting is slow as hell and because of this it is difficult to train mage which is required to be competitive in pvp.
    g) The 317 was so successful in pvp because it was easy to level, although it seemed to be too easy, all you needed was 1 pvp weapon to be able to have a chance in pvp because everyone was in void and therefore you had a chance to kill people even if you were in welfare whereas now people only want to pk in bandos or higher because of the absurd difficulty of getting barrows and if you are in welfare you will die and fast due to the skill of the old players at pvp.

    -Moderation
    a) For now I disagree with the need for moderation because there is no one to moderate.



    Balotelli

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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by Balotelli on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:51 pm

    Amazing post Illion, hit the fucking spot.
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    Knitewulf

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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by Knitewulf on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:54 pm

    Sol wrote:

    If I remove pvp armour from the chest then ppl will stop collecting keys. Then we get the bitching about how we shit from the chest. So either way people are gonna moan. So no that won't happen.

    Newboss drops good items lmao. I don't know what you are on about? Chaotics is considered to be the best item in the game. Dropping it through slayer etc makes it easily obtainable. Newboss was designed to be difficult and time consuming. Even with the exploit that happened, its still a hard drop rate and the exploit only lasted for about 6 hourish before i patched it. The racial remarks weren't done by me but by illion and apollo. If it becomes an issue then Ill change the dialogues.

    Coinshares doesn't cause any issues. Are u trying to imply to remove a feature that gives players a boost to getting coins? No I'm not gonna remove that. Price manipulation is done by the players not THE SERVER. Besides price are adjusted to what people buy it for. RS had the same problem its called MERCHANTING....

    Void as a replacement for PVP armor would take away the complaining... As old players have PVP armor and new players wouldn't even know PVP armor was in the chest to begin with. Who cares if players bitch that they can't get the best armor as easy, it is still a better move for the server as a whole. There are 2 types of bitching the "I cant get rich quick fuck this server" and the "Wow this is bad for the server fuck this". It should be obvious which one to cater to.

    The new boss drops too many items is the problem. High leveled slay monsters would take a while to get to the Slayer level required to kill them considering slayer is so slow. If everyone says XP rates are too low and should be raised to keep new players then this would be a good way of rewarding the players willing to dedicate time to training. Exploit or not during those 6 hours that is when the majority of the items from the newboss were introduced into the game... It doesn't matter who did the dialogues they are still there and add nothing to the game, but an oppurtunity to offend and lose players.

    Coinshare does cause issues though... There is an incredible amount of GP being brought into game. Arma is easily 100m/hr. I'm aware price manipulation is done by the players, but there is such a little amount of players they can dramatically increase the price. In RS it takes more than 2 people to increase a CS drop by like 4-5m each time the item drops... That isn't merchanting that is just abuse. If you don't want economy to go to shit this is a giant red flag.

    You quickly shot down my ideas and I wish you would have put some thought into them. We aren't saying "Do this this way and your right" we are trying to show you what is wrong and offering ways to fix it.


    Last edited by Knitewulf on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    n0m crayons
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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by n0m crayons on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:55 pm

    illion hit the nail on the head in my opinion.
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    Sol
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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by Sol on Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:18 pm

    Knitewulf wrote:
    Sol wrote:

    If I remove pvp armour from the chest then ppl will stop collecting keys. Then we get the bitching about how we shit from the chest. So either way people are gonna moan. So no that won't happen.

    Newboss drops good items lmao. I don't know what you are on about? Chaotics is considered to be the best item in the game. Dropping it through slayer etc makes it easily obtainable. Newboss was designed to be difficult and time consuming. Even with the exploit that happened, its still a hard drop rate and the exploit only lasted for about 6 hourish before i patched it. The racial remarks weren't done by me but by illion and apollo. If it becomes an issue then Ill change the dialogues.

    Coinshares doesn't cause any issues. Are u trying to imply to remove a feature that gives players a boost to getting coins? No I'm not gonna remove that. Price manipulation is done by the players not THE SERVER. Besides price are adjusted to what people buy it for. RS had the same problem its called MERCHANTING....

    Void as a replacement for PVP armor would take away the complaining... As old players have PVP armor and new players wouldn't even know PVP armor was in the chest to begin with. Who cares if players bitch that they can't get the best armor as easy, it is still a better move for the server as a whole. There are 2 types of bitching the "I cant get rich quick fuck this server" and the "Wow this is bad for the server fuck this". It should be obvious which one to cater to.

    The new boss drops too many items is the problem. High leveled slay monsters would take a while to get to the Slayer level required to kill them considering slayer is so slow. If everyone says XP rates are too low and should be raised to keep new players then this would be a good way of rewarding the players willing to dedicate time to training. Exploit or not during those 6 hours that is when the majority of the items from the newboss were introduced into the game... It doesn't matter who did the dialogues they are still there and add nothing to the game, but an oppurtunity to offend and lose players.

    Coinshare does cause issues though... There is an incredible amount of GP being brought into game. Arma is easily 100m/hr. I'm aware price manipulation is done by the players, but there is such a little amount of players they can dramatically increase the price. In RS it takes more than 2 people to increase a CS drop by like 4-5m each time the item drops... That isn't merchanting that is just abuse. If you don't want economy to go to shit this is a giant red flag.

    You quickly shot down my ideas and I wish you would have put some thought into them. We aren't saying "Do this this way and your right" we are trying to show you what is wrong and offering ways to fix it.
    I didn't shoot ideas down i've put counter-initiatives to what u people said. People can't take critization and you're perfect example. Its funny also when I suggest things and you don't like it do i say that im shooting your my idea down? No. I respect suggestions its just people think(like you) cant take critization when i have an opinion of something you take a standpoint of view that "dont understand." or call me "thick." I didn't even say anything in regards of being rude however you decided to take it a step further with that. You and baloetti called me a "bad owner" etc. And was actually talking behind my back before i got on. Normally I ip ban ignorant fucks who do that considering i been working on this server since December to put up a server for u guys to enjoy again. I consider u guys no longer players in my eyes after that(not saying im gonna ip ban u but not considered "friends".)

    Lucas

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    Re: Are we progressing?

    Post by Lucas on Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:40 pm

    Lol

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